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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Jan 23, 2007 5:53pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: anyone gonna watch Bush get booed tonite

i'm gonna watch a bit while i eat dinner - i love the USA - but this IRAQ shit has gone on too far .... 20,000 new troops???? can't wait to hear this lame excuse - be back in a bit - gotta hear our "commander in chief" explain why more of our brothers and sisters need to come back in body bags for no good reason - oh, that's right....... oh never mind, i was right - no good reason

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Poster: Arbuthnot Date: Jan 23, 2007 6:00pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: anyone gonna watch Bush get booed tonite

"I'd rather have my country die for me." -- Jefferson Airplane

By no means saying i agree with the sentiment, just making a musical reference.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jan 23, 2007 6:04pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: anyone gonna watch Bush get booed tonite

I am sorry--it will no doubt offend the liberal element, though I am more liberal than most, BUT one should NEVER ask what you can do for your country...you, ARE your country. All political elements, from top to bottom should represent a manifestation of you...you cannot ask what you should do for you. Non sequitor.

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Poster: Arbuthnot Date: Jan 23, 2007 6:08pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: anyone gonna watch Bush get booed tonite

Very curious Will Tell, not sure i've heard this expressed as such before. And preliminarily speaking, i can't say i disagree with your sentiment. I've most always been of the camp that believes that, yes, while to a certain degree i am bound to acknowledge that my "country" provides its citizenry a certain amount of security, while likewise asking its sons and daughters to enlist in its various military forces, it should not be something forced or ordered by statute. I am horrified daily by the chaos and death that happens to the troops over in Iraq, or elsewhere, especially given that from my perspective it all seems like so many wasted, often young lives. I am a former soldier, and so i cannot but honour those who have followed me in uniform. But the whole Iraq operation, i don't know, it just bothers me, and i can't rule out the possibility that my discomfort is a result of the fact that the Commander In Chief is someone who has questionable linguistic and mental abilities. He most certainly does not "represent" me, and nor am i able to dredge up even the least amount of respect for the man because of it. Sorry, but the last several years have been a horror show at best.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jan 23, 2007 7:02pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: anyone gonna watch Bush get booed tonite

Yes, the complexity of the relationship requires considerable thought and discourse, and I was in part, pissing while waiting for the prez to speak (argh...just got thru that), but I do believe that it is important to consider it from the perspective as I framed it (not that I am the first). For example, WAR is always to be waged as a manifestation of the will of the people, if and only if and with and only with ALL being behind it (note that all great war buffs and historians from the Greeks on down agree on this; war is never to be left to the politicos, and has to be constantly adjusted in the light of the will of the people...as that shifts, so to should the war, etc., etc.). The idea that one person, prez or otherwise, might have the wisdom to wage a 'just war' (oxymoron) is just infuriating...

Okay, enough of my 14th century views on war, peace and the independent dead head.

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Poster: Arbuthnot Date: Jan 23, 2007 7:41pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: anyone gonna watch Bush get booed tonite

Whatever the reason or reasons for the manifestation of a war-like movement by one country/nation against another, i can't but see it as a complex series of responses and reactions, whether historical or contemporary, and however it is perceived by the populace at large. Meaning that except when studying a past war in a historical context (and even here grey areas exist), the current reasons and opinions for leading the attack are very likely wide of the truth, if truth can ever really be discerned, and so of course while i have my opinions regarding the Iraq debacle (if you allow me to call it such), i will leave in the possibility that i don't have the full picture. However, it's almost as though since Vietnam, a period in time which paralleled the wide-spread use of television and other popular media, the "voice" and "will" of the people have been more vocal, whether for or against. It is my opinion that the "people" will get behind a war until the true horror is made real to them. Such was the case in Britain during WWI, when even the most die-hard Brits could no longer hold their emotions and support in check when presented with the battlefield horrors and the sheer number of young men who went graveward. Which is interesting in comparison to some of the battles that took place between France and Britain during the Napoleonic era, when literally tens of thousands would meet their death on the battlefield in a single day, and yet from my reading of that historical period, the "will to win" overshadowed the true horrors of those many conflicts.

This post was modified by Arbuthnot on 2007-01-24 03:41:22

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jan 23, 2007 7:37pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: anyone gonna watch Bush get booed tonite

That is an amazing aspect, isn't it? The point you raise about the fact that 10,000 could willingly charge across a mile of open ground to meet certain death because Lee (or Pickett) wanted them to do it...mind boggling.

Hmmm, Arbuthnot and Tell's history hour of hijacked threads...oh wait, this is a Bush thread!

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Jan 23, 2007 7:54pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: anyone gonna watch Bush get booed tonite

to think i started this thread just asking if anyone was going to watch the speech :-/

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jan 23, 2007 8:07pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: anyone gonna watch Bush get booed tonite

Hey, good job! Arbuthnot and I get to talk about our second love...thanks.

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Poster: patkelley Date: Jan 23, 2007 6:43pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: anyone gonna watch Bush get booed tonite

Sometimes I think that the best aspect of living in the USA is the fact that the Prez will say all kinds of stuff tonite and all the talking heads will comment on it for the next week, just as they do about everything every night. The speech might even impel some action by the legislature, some of which could be huge. But I'm going to get up tomorrow and go to work just like I planned, and I'll come home, and I'll eat, and I'll drive around and do whatever, and all these things that Bush is talking about will have, at best, a really marginal effect on me. That's called being an American, and I love it.

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Poster: Zooomabooma Date: Jan 24, 2007 5:07am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: anyone gonna watch Bush get booed tonite

As this war has unexpectedly dragged on I've become increasingly dishearted by each new week, by each new death. Needless to say I'm not exactly pleased with Bush any more but God Bless him for not being a Democrat.

I just hope more people pray for a quick victorious withdrawal of at last most of our troops . . . obviously we need some to stay there or in Kuwait to allow Iraq to *not* become like Afghanistan was -- a free and clear training ground for al Qaeda.

P.S. I didn't hear many boos during Bush's speech, in fact, a lot of cheering.

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Poster: cousinkix1953 Date: Jan 24, 2007 6:31am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: anyone gonna watch Bush get booed tonite

No reason to watch Bush on TV. They tell us for days ahead, what he's gonna say. It isn't news by dinner time on a Tuesday night. Never mind those cable news networks regurgitating dur feuhrer's speech over and over again. BORING!

I get enough of his BS from the highlites on the local newscast. It was the sme with Clinton for me too.

We just got some kick ass 3 way speakers for this computer. A 12 inch sub-woofer makes Phil come alive. Better to stream some vintage Grateful Dead and ignore the politicians throwing their stones.

Just D/L and save that M3U VBR link and play it in WinAmp. A gapless plugin at www.etree.org eliminates all of those dead air spaces between the tracks...

This post was modified by cousinkix1953 on 2007-01-24 14:31:57

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Poster: rastamon Date: Jan 24, 2007 6:53am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: anyone gonna watch Bush get booed tonite

hey cousinkix..
I can understand. I also avoid hearing/watching speeches, my mind is closed like a steel trap. I wait to hear what my favorite pundits tell me. I completely trust them. Why listen live? Why should I watch and discern body language-tone, etc...what a waste of time!!
I already know everything about everything. I hate Bush and EVERYTHING about him and that's that!! Gotta go now, NPR and my favorite liberal alphabet station is going to intruct me how to think correctly

This post was modified by rastamon on 2007-01-24 14:53:29

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Poster: dyermaker81 Date: Jan 23, 2007 7:33pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: anyone gonna watch Bush get booed tonite

I didn't want to watch tonight. I am mad that Bush ruined my American Idol watching! haha

Furthermore, W will be in Wilmington, Delaware tomorrow afternoon. guess where dyermaker81 works? You guessed it, Wilmington, Delaware. He is causing the city to be practically shut down so he can rant about how he wants us to conserve energy and use less fuel. While he flies from town to town on his jumbo jet, then takes buses and limos and huge motorcades throughout towns...burning tons of gas!

I hope someone shoots his ass tomorrow! (Queue the feds knock on my door) :)

This post was modified by dyermaker81 on 2007-01-24 03:33:37

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Poster: mickmac Date: Jan 23, 2007 6:55pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: anyone gonna watch Bush get booed tonite

Is Cheney going to be there too!!!?

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Poster: billydlions Date: Jan 23, 2007 7:00pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: anyone gonna watch Bush get booed tonite

Then Nancy Pelosi is in charge and if you think we're in bad shape now, you aint seen nothin yet. Sorry guys, I wouldn't wish death on anyone. I hated Bill Clinton the same way you hate Bush, but I would never wish something like that.

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Poster: dyermaker81 Date: Jan 23, 2007 7:21pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: anyone gonna watch Bush get booed tonite

I may have seemed a little harsh...but you know what, this man just stood there on TV and said that he wants to punish those with good health insurance as a way to make sure everyone in america has health care. He said that we need to send money to Africa for AIDS...what a good will gesture...what a smoke screen over him sending more troops to Iraq. This man is a disgrace to the office. It has nothing to do with party affiliation either.

Pelosi is NOT and will NOT be the President...She is not the decision maker. FYI...if something like that did happen..Dick is next in line remember? Chain of authority?

Finally...I didn't wish death...just wished he got shot. He didn't have to die. And I was the one who said it...no need to group others in with me.

This is only gonna get worse if it continues and ruin this message board so I am gonna back off.

Peace Brothers

This post was modified by dyermaker81 on 2007-01-24 03:21:40

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Poster: Arbuthnot Date: Jan 23, 2007 7:31pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: anyone gonna watch Bush get booed tonite

dude ... don't even get me started on health care.

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Poster: dyermaker81 Date: Jan 23, 2007 7:34pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: anyone gonna watch Bush get booed tonite

HAHA! I work in the health care industry. And I still can't get affordable healthcare...i can only imagine being self employed...or working for a small business that can barely offer such benefits.

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Jan 23, 2007 7:51pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: anyone gonna watch Bush get booed tonite

tell me about it - i pay over $700 a month for me and my family and that hurts, but it is a good policy

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jan 23, 2007 7:39pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: anyone gonna watch Bush get booed tonite

Got to tell you the horror stories about getting coverage for drugs post prostate removal...utterly amazing state of affairs that until I experienced it first hand, I never could have appreciated it...

Hmmm, I am babbling on vis a vis non dead topics tonight...

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Poster: MabesHere Date: Jan 23, 2007 8:05pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: anyone gonna watch Bush get booed tonite

I hope that Phil's treatment is going well.
Thank god for early detection and wise, compassionate care

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jan 23, 2007 8:08pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: anyone gonna watch Bush get booed tonite

Cheers to that!

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Poster: mickmac Date: Jan 23, 2007 7:08pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: anyone gonna watch Bush get booed tonite

Cheney's not that good of a shot...didn't wish harm on anyone...just a hunting accident joke.

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Poster: patkelley Date: Jan 23, 2007 7:06pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: anyone gonna watch Bush get booed tonite

I dont hope anyone shoots the Prez- for the record (and the Bar Association)

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Poster: rastamon Date: Jan 23, 2007 7:23pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: anyone gonna watch Bush get booed tonite

very good speech (but I'm no boo-bird).
Poor Pelosi -LOL!! she'll get even for having to be civil
Pity the fool who's fueled by hate

As far as Iraq...we need more common sense Generals like George Patton was. Waaaay more troups were needed there from the get-go.
http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=94773



This post was modified by rastamon on 2007-01-24 03:23:35

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Poster: dyermaker81 Date: Jan 23, 2007 7:31pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: anyone gonna watch Bush get booed tonite

sorry...one last thing. THIS was a good speech!

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/23/sotu.webb.transcript/index.html

Very nice follow up Mr. Webb.

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Poster: ernestangley Date: Jan 23, 2007 8:36pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: anyone gonna watch Bush get booed tonite

Ho hum - he actually seemed to draw some energy from the crowd that endowed his typically vague platitudes with a veneer of sincerity, unlike his corpse-like address a couple weeks ago on escalating the war in Iraq.

Just to cite one example, I'm skeptical of the Texas oil man's energy agenda. Given his extensive record on this issue - and health care, entitlements, etc., - I'll wait to see how his speechwriters's words connect with the tangible policies that his advisors draw up for him. Be very afraid, if you believe in even the meagrest of social safety nets, of this president's vow to balance the budget in light of his seemingly endless committment to military spending.

Furthermore, the rhetoric of "war on terror" needs to be abandoned. The FALN, Timothy McVeigh, Weather Underground, anarchists during the depression all used terrorist tactics, but their respective agendas were far different. Grouping political actors according to tactics versus agendas obscures more than it reveals and is therefore dangerous.

The same goes for the ideological box of "totalitarianism" into which the president and his neocon cabal attempts to stuff radical Islam. A simple thought experiment will suffice to illustrate my point. Imagine the practical difference between the Soviet Union and Al Qaeda bringing the full weight of their military power to bear on the US: not at all comparable.

I would recommend Hannah Arendt's classic _Totalitarianism, Vol. 3_ to anyone interested in current affairs and invite them to see if her model holds true for what we face today from militant Islamic radical (then ask yourself if it was even true of the Soviet Union during the Cold War). This "clash of civilizations" approach advanced by Samuel Huntington and Bernard Lewis, and the attempt to reconcile it w/Arendtian totalitarianism needs to be exposed for the intellectually bankrupt and socially destructive fallacy that it is.

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Poster: Spaced Date: Jan 24, 2007 1:08pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: anyone gonna watch Bush get booed tonite

>This "clash of civilizations" approach advanced by Samuel >Huntington and Bernard Lewis, and the attempt to reconcile
>it w/Arendtian totalitarianism needs to be exposed for the
>intellectually bankrupt and socially destructive fallacy
>that it is.

Wow, just when I was losing hope in Deadheads!

The funny thing about Fox News and allies is that they are the ones who resort to emotional displays, smear, and rumour. I saw a mag interview with Huntington where he was backing off on 'The Clash" a bit, though I think there's a bit of truth to it, as much as Jihad Vs. McWorld anyway. It seem both are caricatures are to be avoided.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jan 24, 2007 10:15am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: anyone gonna watch Bush get booed tonite

I am shocked, and amazed to find this post here...

What? No responses?

I for one could have used more.

Welcome.

[whoops...just realized you are one month old in forum years]

This post was modified by William Tell on 2007-01-24 18:15:33